So - I know that you thought that "The Lagoon" started out boring - Conrad is known for his long sentences, his detailed descriptions, his dense writing - but you really need to be introduced to him before you go to college.
At the end of the story Arsat looks out "Beyond the great light of a cloudless day into a darkness of a world of illusions."
I told you that Conrad wrote stories that criticized society and politics. What do you think this kind of contrast between light and dark - especially when read in that line above - means?
I think it has to do with the fact that Arsat goes against conventions and has a brief moment of happiness, only to lose it when the white man shows up. I think that Conrad was criticizing his own people for believing that what is in darkness - like the dark skinned men - was savage, and what is light- like the white man- is civilized and pure.
I hope I haven't confused you more - now what do you think?
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ReplyDeleteWell your assumption definitely sounds correct,
ReplyDeletebut i also think that many times in the story that Arsat tries to go from darkness to light. Just as when he and his brother took Dielman and were leaving, the waters ahead were clear and light, while they were leaving darkness
behind them. This may connect to when he took Dielman himself and left his brother.... He left the darkness (danger of those who were chasing them)behind, and went to the light(his love). Referring to the mentioned line, this may signify that in orderto achieve something great or beautiful, something horrible or ugly
must have been done first. I don't know, just a thought.
- Melissa M.
I agree with what you said. Many times in the story Arsat seems to be trying to head more for the light than the dark. The whole beginning of the story is made to set up the idea that the dark is mysterious, frightening, and bad while light is clear, calm, and more natural. This I believe was supposed to symbolize the common (and racists) belief that lighter skin is upfront, intelligent, and civilized while darker skinned people are untrustworthy, violent, and inferior. I believe that all of that was meant to set up the underlying message that this racists thinking was just that racist and wrong. He switches the whole meaning of the rest of the story to focus on the main characters. Any of Arsat’s happiness was ruined by the arrival of the white man. This directly contradicts the first set up by saying that the white man ruins things instead of the black man or darkness. In all I believe that this short story was meant to call out racism through his descriptions and underlying meanings.
ReplyDelete-JP
I agree also to what you said. Conrad definetly shows the differences between light and darkness. Arset had happy times with his brother and Diamelen, and these moments were descriped when it was light out. Then when tragic things happen, there is a darkness in the way Conrad despcripes the situation.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with all that was said above. The darkness represents danger, mystery, and frightening things. The light represents things that are happier and lighter. I think the quote, "Beyond the great light of a cloudless day into a darkness of a world of illusions." means that behind all happiness there is some darkeness or sadness/anger.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said as well as what my classmates mentioned above me. Conrad's writing style is very boring in the begining with all the dark terms and then by the end it becomes lighter and happier. This has something to do with the contrast between light and dark. I feel he uses this contrast because of the characters in the story and it is used to depict racism.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree that Conrad uses this story as a politcal way to shed light into the racial controversy over skin color. At the start of the story the reader assumes that the light is good and that the dark is evil. This however is contradicted throughout the story since Arsat who is a darker skin color finds some happiness until the white skin man shows up.
ReplyDeleteI think that throughout the story Arsat tries to go from the dark to the light. Just as in other stories I think that the dark is supposed to represtent evil and untrustworthness while the light represents a more clean and natural side of thiings. From a racist point of view the light skins are more intelligent and civilized while the darker skins are violent, below the light skins and are untrustworthy.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your assessment. Originally, Conrad goes to great lengths to make us see the differences between light and darkness. Conrad seems to originally convey the idea that the light is good because you can see the light; it's transparent, while the darkness is mysterious and full of evil. At the same time this story is going on, any happiness that Asrat might have had was shattered with the arrival of the white men. It helps to know the historical background that while this story was published, the British Empire was busy conquering the world including Africa which is the setting for this and other Conrad stories. It also helps to know that Conrad was a Congo steamboat captain earlier in his life and witnessed horrible acts that shaped his beliefs and influenced his writing including this story. The last line of the story is ironic in itself due to the fact behind the light which is suppose to be good and transparent according to the times, there is a deeper darkness that is the real form of humanity rather then the illusion of light or purity. That goes along with what you were saying because Conrad is criticizing his own people (white people) for believing in the illusion of racism or superiority due to race.
ReplyDeleteLightness represents a more refined and cultured civilization, which is where the white men come from. The darkness is used to symbolize the Malaysians, who are ignorant of the things the white men consider important. In the darkness people can imagine what they want, it covers up everything. In the light all is reveled and one must come to terms with the truth.
ReplyDeleteRachel Palmisciano
I believe that Conrad was trying to portray the governments idea that light always equals good and darkness always equals bad or evil. Bad things always happen in darkness and great things always happen in light. As the story goes on, he reforms his message by saying this is wrong and that light and darkness are equally good and bad, and that racism is wrong.
ReplyDeleteThrough Conrad's descriptions, he is clearly demonstrating the differences in skin colors as well as race. He starts out by depicting bright colors, representing the good, and then dark colors to represent evil. Throughout the story, Arsat, a colored man, find happiness, but is quickly shot down after a white skinned man appears.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion that is a very valid point that sparks thought and discussion. The darkness seems to represents danger, mystery, and frightening ideas. The light represents things that are happier and more on the optimistic side. I think the quote, "Beyond the great light of a cloudless day into a darkness of a world of illusions." means that with all good things there has been sadness/anger. I believe that the bad days make good days seem better.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Conrad uses the contrast of dark and light to explain the different situation mentioned in this short story. The quote explains that things aren't always as they appear. Darkness doesn't always represent a darker side of things, and light doesn't always depict happy and joyful situations. This is proven in the part of the story when the darker skinned man, Arsat, finds contentment in life that is soon discouraged by a white man.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Conrad goes through great detail to allow us to see the difference between dark and light. He portrays dark as something you cant see, therefore it is evil and he portrays light as something more positive and good because its transparent but still seen. Throughout the story, Arsat tries to go from the darkness to the light which he does finally when he and his brother, at the end of the story leave the dark, mysterious waters behind and head towards lighter clearer water. I think that this entire short story was based off of racism and its underlying meanings.
ReplyDeleteI must admit that in the beginning I did not find this story to be engaging what so ever. Once Arast starts to tell his story however my views instantly changed. I feel the contradiction of light and dark falls within the skin color of the men. Arast who is dark skinned is depicted as light and hopeful whereas the white men are a representation of the dark, for they are controlling and violent. Another view of light and dark from the story can be seen in the setting as well. The journey taken by Arast and his love in the canoe from his home land is full of light and hope. The men from their homeland and the chase after the brothers represent the darkness. For me the last quote means that to follow the lightness and the good in life there may be some darkness or negativity that comes along in getting there.
ReplyDeleteConrad believes that racism is wrong. Troughout the begginging of the book they portray the fact that light is good and dark is evil. As the story goes on the idea of racism is brought to the attention of the leader. Arsat who is black finds happiness but when the white man comes into the picture everything changes. I think that racsim was called out on Conrads outlook on it.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Conrad's political agenda regarding the stereotypes in our society was thoroughly portrayed throughout the story. His example of assuming light to represent good and dark to represent evil and the further contradiction that follows those assumptions proves his awareness of cultural and racial discrimination. I believe when Conrad states, "Beyond the great light of a cloudless day into a darkness of a world of illusions" he is trying to take readers to see past a fixed biased perspective. When the "light" is eliminated from the scenario, as revealed through Arsat's brief happiness in absence of the white man, it becomes evident that, without a stereotype behind their eyes, a person's cultural perception can in turn be enlightened.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with what has been said above. I think Conrad portrays light as being more happier and calmer, and he portrays dark as being angry, frightening, and mysterious. I think that the line "Beyond the great light of a cloudless day into a darkness of a world of illusions." means that behind happeiness there will always be a dark angry side to whatever it may be.
ReplyDeleteIn the Lagoon, Conrad made multiple examples with the contrasting concepts of light and dark. To me, the quote "Beyond the great light of a cloudless day into a darkness of a world of illusions" would describe the different views of what light and dark truly mean. In most cases, light would be considered good while dark would be seen as evil. That idea was seen during the beginning of The Lagoon. With this quote, I believe Conrad is showing how light 'has its darkness' and how darkness can 'have its own light'. One example would be when the sun rose. When the light shined down, Arsat's enemies had the ability to see him. The darkness was what had hidden him from them. The rising of the sun had its darkness upon Arsat. The cover of night was Arsat's beacon of light and hope. This short story turned out to be much more thought proving than what it first put out to be.
ReplyDeleteHoly Tamole - I didn't know all of you could interpret literature so well. Nathan - you are a genius - and so is backinblack - is that you, Gerrick? Melissa, as always, you are on target - in fact you are all on target. I am impressed. I should have started this at the beginning of the year!!!
ReplyDeleteBasicly this story is like Yin/Yang. For every good thing there is a bad thing that goes along with it. The story also has to do with compensation. For everything that has value you have to give up something of equal value. Arsat lost the person most dear to him so he can have something new.
ReplyDeleteI think that Conrad portrays the light as being happy and calm and the dark as sad and angry. The quote "Beyond the great light of a cloudless day into the darkness of a world of illusions" means that not everything is what it seems to be.
ReplyDeleteWell I would like to argue with captain FArge, I believe they are showing the imbalance in the societal structure, showing that once you are in a life on blackness there is no escape to the light If he were white there would have been no problems. He lives a life knowing he had a hand in his brother's death that blackness was always inside even if he had "escaped" with his love which could be considered the light. Never did he escaped and only was the illusion of light portrayed not the illusion of black. -Jerred Jordan
ReplyDeleteI think that everything mentioned above is correct. Conrad uses the illusion of lightness and darkness to depict concepts of racism and discrimination. He compares white skinned people to lightness, representing happiness, delight, and safety. He compares darker skinned people to darkness, representing mystery, fear, danger. However, in this story, Conrad contradicts these comparisons by having Arsat, a darker skinned man, leave his patch of darkness and enter into lightness. This created a time of happiness for him, until a light skinned man came along and took it away from him. The mentioned quote means that on every journey to lightness and happiness, there will always be a patch of that must be passed through. But in the end, when the darkness is behind, the end result of happiness and delight will seem even better because it is well deserved and earned.
ReplyDelete-Simone
like mentioned above, Conrad shows how the dark side is evil and the light is good, but he also hints at how things aren't always black and white, like how the east harbors both light and darkness. Conrad also emphasizes the stillness of the forest, and how calm it is, yet it possesses many other traits such as mystery and impenetrability.
ReplyDeleteOOh - I think that was cool.
ReplyDeleteConrad shows that white, whether it be referring to people or "pure society" doesn't have all the right answers despite what everyone thinks. He also shows that the world is not light. It isn't the bright sunshiny place that everyone thinks it to be. Despite man's efforts, the world will continue to have darkness and sadness. Man was not meant to direct his own steps and years of history has proven thsi point furhter and further.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that the society promotes the light happy and overal good aspects of life. It discourages evil dark and mysterious things. Although with all the discouragement there will always be negative, dark, and evil things in the world. I also like the fact that he talk alot about the forest as if it was indestructable. It was very intriging the little things that he used to liven up the story.
ReplyDeletei agree with you Conrad definatly shows that white is the light and pure and therefore better than the dark.Then again h goes on to show that this world is not light it is not the great place that everyone thinks it should be.No matter what effort people put into making the world we live in better there will continue to be darknessand sadness.
ReplyDeleteI felt that Conrad shows light and dark as metaphors for racism between white and black culture. He also shows the illusion that everything is light and good in the world is false. No matter what people do, there will always be wrong, sadness, disappointment, and hatred in the world. It is sad but also true.
ReplyDeleteI didn't realize there was more than one page to the lagoon:
ReplyDeleteeverything has some reference to how things are mixed, and not black or white.
'Brought lies and truth mixed together, so that no man knew when to rejoice and when to be sorry.'
When he speaks of the men that would be his friends in the morning, but were already his enemy, he shows how people can be 'black or white' depending on the context.
also, he compares his love's breathing in the canoe to her breathing as she is dying, and how they seem the same, but in the canoe he is taking her, but in the hut he is losing her.
'She sat in the middle of the canoe with covered face; silent as she is now; unseeing as she is now—and I had no regret at what I was leaving because I could hear her breathing close to me—as I can hear her now.’
the ending is what i think really shows how things are never black and white. Arsat thought of sacrificing his brother for his girl as black and white. He either had to give up his love or his brother. But in reality, he lost both.
Danielle Mahoney
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said about Conrads writing, and I feel that he used this story to show that there is a lot of darkness in the world. He shows that although the world was bright and light when Arsat escaped with the woman he loved, darkness returned when she passed away. I feel that the contrast of black and white is used to show good and bad in the world.
Agreeing with what you said above i believe that for everything there is a positive and negative which would be the dark and light in this story. He started out very boring and dull which was the black, but ended the story in a more positive way which was the light.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Conrad was saying in the story. He begins with stating all of the dark terms for example, the forest being so quiet and gloomy. By the end of the story he really emphasized the light meaning bright and positive things. He showed how black is suppose to mean dark and evil, and white is suppose to be good and happy.
ReplyDeleteI think that different ideas of light and dark refer to black and white skin. Also, the story begins on a mysterious, darker note then seems to get happier and lighter towards the end. The author does a good job of representing dark (bad) points and light (good) points for the reader.
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ReplyDeleteAgreeing with you and completely agreeing with Danielle, I do believe that Conrad was critizing his own people for their beliefs of dark and light. By dark I believe that the dark symbolizes black skinned people who the white men look at as evil. By light I believe light represents white skinned people. But I also believe that dark and light were represented in the darkness and light of Arsats long journey he had faced. I believe the author purposely wrote the ending to represent "light" and what it really means.
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